OTC sales of TFT by farmers

#1

Dear All,

I’ve tried to address this topic a few times before, but nobody seemed interested.

However, I still feel that the sales of TFT directly by farmers should be stopped. Demand for TFT should be reflected in enhanced exchange rates on the exchanges. Sales of TFT directly by farmers is just totally not transparent. There could be firm offline demand, or tokens could be dumped by farmers… Nothing could be happening in this space. Who knows…

Posts on Telegram seem to indicate activity in the OTC realm however, and purchasing direct from farmers (actually Mazraa which is now also just TF as I understand) is still listed as one of the main purchasing options. And an interesting one as I believe that KYC is not required in practise, while you can just buy with Paypal.

Once upon a time there was a website where we could see these transactions (sort of), but this seems to have disappeared.

Maybe there are very good reasons to continue these OTC sales, but I don’t see them.

Thoughts?

#2

Hi Aernoud,

I appreciate your concerns, and I’m sure everyone would welcome transparency, as long as it doesn’t have a negative impact elsewhere.

It’s normal in most financial markets for there to be off-market block trades, OTC trades, dark pools of liquidity etc., so in principle this is all in line with normal market practice.

The Telegram chat, whilst arguably is an ‘insider’ group as many people who might trade the tokens may not know of its existence, has been open about the availability of blocks of TFT so I guess it’s up to the individuals to express an interest.

What could be considered is listing these block trades somewhere, just price, amount and date of transaction so that the wider market can at least see what is trading off market. This site could perhaps also amalgamate data from other sources such as the exchanges TFT is listed on and the soon-to-launch (I think) DeFi liquidity pool.

#3

Dear Aernoud

Thank you for the question and concerns about ThreeFold Growth. Let me share some details on questions raised in your message.

As far as I see, the only OTC farm listed in official wiki - is Mazraa farm, which belongs to the foundation. Foundation requires some funding to expand ecosystem and promote the grid. Therefore this kind of activity benefits all ThreeFold community in general.
We cannot stop farmers from selling tokens, as they are free to do with their farmed tokens whatever they decide, however, we do not promote any thrid-party farmers offering tokens OTC for sale on foundation’s resources and portals.
Regarding Mazraa, all tokens sold by mazraa are subject to vesting under general vesting terms and anyone who do not agree with such long-term approach are referred back to Liquid and BTC-Alpha. Therefore, such sales do not affect market in a negative way. As far as I know, PayPal options they provide only though the link after verification.

Thank you

#4

Dear Nickolay,

Thanks for your answers.

Blockquote
As far as I see, the only OTC farm listed in official wiki - is Mazraa farm, which belongs to the foundation. Foundation requires some funding to expand ecosystem and promote the grid. Therefore this kind of activity benefits all ThreeFold community in general.

I’m sorry I don’t see any argument here to not use the exchanges. It not how about how the funds are used as a result of selling tokens, that will be different for anyone, including Mazraa. An increase in TFT valuation as a result of demand will also benefit the TF community in general.

Blockquote
We cannot stop farmers from selling tokens, as they are free to do with their farmed tokens whatever they decide, however, we do not promote any thrid-party farmers offering tokens OTC for sale on foundation’s resources and portals.

Of course farmers can sell tokens, they need to of course. However they can/should do that via the exchanges. I thought that was the whole idea to get this token-economy working.

Blockquote
Regarding Mazraa, all tokens sold by mazraa are subject to vesting under general vesting terms and anyone who do not agree with such long-term approach are referred back to Liquid and BTC-Alpha. Therefore, such sales do not affect market in a negative way. As far as I know, PayPal options they provide only though the link after verification.

No, this is a purchase of tokens by a party (buy order) so it will not affect the market in a negative way of course. However, OTC sales will not affect the market in a positive way. This is what I’m referring to.

Again these OTC sales are not transparent. All purchase and sales should be done in the public, so on exchanges, as to guarantee transparent insight in supply and demand and proper pricing.

1 Like
#5

Hi Colin,

Blockquote
It’s normal in most financial markets for there to be off-market block trades, OTC trades, dark pools of liquidity etc., so in principle this is all in line with normal market practice.

My bad, I keep thinking that the crypto-world is an improvement over the traditional financial world.

Blockquote
What could be considered is listing these block trades somewhere, just price, amount and date of transaction so that the wider market can at least see what is trading off market. This site could perhaps also amalgamate data from other sources such as the exchanges TFT is listed on and the soon-to-launch (I think) DeFi liquidity pool.

Yes, as I said, these trades used the be visible on the TF Radar. If nobody want to prevent these trades from happening, then at least we should have some insights in these trades. However as these trades are made offline, it requires a lot of good faith to actually accept this information as reliable.

#6

Hello Aernoud,

compared to usual crypto projects these days, TFT holders are in an amazing spot. Seed and private sale phases of most tokens come at 50%-90% discounts at these days. Much to the detriment of everyone that enters the market later. ThreeFold never did such things.
But to bring TFT and ThreeFold forward, liquidity is needed.

In regards to publicizing OTC metrics, we have to respect investor confidentiality, amongst other concerns.

1 Like
#7

Blockquote
compared to usual crypto projects these days, TFT holders are in an amazing spot. Seed and private sale phases of most tokens come at 50%-90% discounts at these days. Much to the detriment of everyone that enters the market later. ThreeFold never did such things.
But to bring TFT and ThreeFold forward, liquidity is needed.

I don’t think the proposition of the TF project was under debate. Yes, its a great project hence I invested in it. I’m talking about OTC Sales.

Blockquote
In regards to publicizing OTC metrics, we have to respect investor confidentiality, amongst other concerns.

Nobody is asking for information per transaction including wallet / investor details. I’m talking about aggregated information like was available before on TF Radar regarding sales of TFT by Mazraa.

I’m starting to think I’m discussing this with people who have a some serious vested interests having OTC sales continue i.e. farmers.

I see nobody actually refuting my arguments.

#8