TFGrid 3.50: Proposal and Discussion

Hi all,

We recently announced a proposed update to the Grid and TFT tokenomics, to be version 3.50. Now, we’d like to invite comments and discussion to help finalize the mechanism and parameters.

Here’s the summary of proposed changes:

  • Daily minting performed by validators
  • Farmers can earn from utilization under opt-in new farming model
  • Introduction of staking on validators and farms
  • Rethink solution provider and certified node concepts to be more decentralized
  • Staking and locking of farming rewards can help support TFT price
  • Funding of development and promotion objectives from treasury via DAO decision
  • Better defined DAO to control key parameters

Please see the document containing the all of the details. Anyone can add comments to the document. For longer comments or in depth discussion, posting to this thread might be best.

We’ll host a call next Wednesday August 9 at 5pm CEST / 11am EDT to review and move this forward. Call link here.


Thanks Scott

So far, two things stand out:

  1. Does it make sense to have farm staking? (See discussion within the document)

It looks like an easy way out is to allow locked tokens on farms to be staked to a chosen validator.

  1. Lee’s comment on validator. Should it be called authorities? (If I understand well? @smetl)

Oh boy, now that’s a document. Will take some time to digest.


Thanks Scott .

I think adding collateral on TFT for farming like flux node is a good way to support token price but it’s not on your proposal :frowning:

1 Like

Make a comment on the doc. Its a thought, if would enforce uptime better than not being paid it seems.


Thanks for the feedback.

@rblode as Nelson said, if you can make a comment in the doc or add a suggestion it could be nice to discuss further.

What was discussed but it seems it isn’t in there, was that to farm CHI, you’d need to get some amount of TFT and convert TFT to CHI to have a kind of collateral.

@kristof are we still having this?

1 Like

Done … I just add my comment about collateral.

maybe I should add also an other proposal about minimum uptime for node to get reward, some things like that:

uptime> 95% full reward
uptime between 90 and 95 : 50% of reward.
less than 90% no reward at all.

it helps us to build Strong providers solution and stop sending reward for not serious people.


Good point. Nelson also said something on uptime.

Please do add it in the document.

We’ll have a call on this and we can check everyone’s input.


1 Like

Things that are being discussed

  • Farm staking --> how to make this efficiently
  • Explain in details farming and validator staking
  • Should there be farming collateral?
  • Should there be uptime minimum ranges?
    • uptime> 95% full reward
    • uptime between 90 and 95 : 50% of reward.
    • less than 90% no reward at all.
  • Should we remove certified farming? (Is there another way to proceed?)
  • Could a referral program make up for the change in solution provider and sales channel?

The call should also clarify what the purpose of farmer staking is. I’m not necessarily opposed to it, I just don’t know what it does.


Done :white_check_mark:, hope that 3.12 will be a game changer :wink:
Thanks :+1:

Newin :slight_smile:


Hi, i hope this is the right place, if not, feel free to move. I just finished watching the community call recording and went over some of the documents shared. To start; all of those documents refuse to download (like the TF Cloud docs) due to a virus report. Is there another way to retrieve them?

It means I cannot share them with people I think may be interested in funding.

Some questions and concerns;

---------- 1 ----------
The role I’ve taken on is that of a vendor of certified nodes and that of a promotor of the new grid, hoping it boosts sales of the nodes and increases usage.

Last time I spoke to Kristoff he was mentioning he felt people like us needed to be rewarded. Let me make it clear this has never been a request from me, but I appreciate the thought, gesture and might give more energy.
So again, I promote and build certified nodes;

During the many presentations, podcasts and webinars, two of the strong selling points of a certified node was;

  1. it stores data encrypted;
  2. due to the fact it’s locked and can only act as a node, farmers get 25% extra rewards for this ‘stability’.

To my surpirse recently I was told that certified nodes do not store data encrypted. I do not know who fed that info (and I recall that to be more than 1 person) long ago, but it was quote a shock I’ve been lying to my audience for all that time and it nearly made it into a new book that comes out in a months time. (Yes, Threefold and Hostservice are mentioned in that book!)

Now with the new tokonomics the idea is to take away the additional 25% rewards on certified nodes.

My audience and customers’ avarage age is about 55-60+. They purchase nodes because they believe it makes a better world. The ‘simple’ Threefold Connect App is already complicated enough for many. Let alone the fact we now offer them a new tokonomics model in which it would be beneficial for them to promote their nodes and have people deploy stuff on them.
How likely do you think this will happen?

Plus; on my large certified nodes, 25% can be up to 1500 TFT or more.

In short; this is KILLING the business and I strongly suggest to not let that happen.

------ 2 ---------
Let me repeat; I promote and build certified nodes.

There’s not enough time, nor to learn, and frankly not even the ambition to learn how to build flists using docker etc.

But…i have ideas and have the ability to sell them. Apperently I come across as very trustworthy. :blush: From day 1 I’ve been asking for support in helping my to build a solution for a Nextloud installation (prefferably with gateway usage) and webhosting. I’ve said it so many times, there’s a good chance someone else walks away with this idea, especially since the solution provider requests stalled somewhere. Lack of interest I guess.
I tried starting a solution provider and wanted to get some folks together to get this Nextcloud integration done. None of them made it happen. The part I was interested in playing was ‘to promote’ OUR build Nextcloud solution to the hundreds if not thousands of peeps in my audience.

I can not see how the new solution provider idea pays of for a promoter like me. How do I get involved in those new solutions?

I find the above interesting. I believe there’s clear appreciation for the vendors that help expand this project and also for the promoters. As a matter of fact; marketing has been a major request for a long time. However, the current proposals for 3.12 do not give me the feeling they’re in any way a step forward for me, on neither of those 2 facets.

Last but not least some basic questions;

  • Can anyone please explain me in 100 words or less what this crypto ‘staking’ is?
  • What or who is AYA?
  • How do we invest in the new ventures in SIMPLE words? (use enough terms like “conversion valuation protection”, “pre-money valuation” and I’m out, including those I can’t explain it to.)

I’m carefully positive on the TF cloud idea…just wondering if this means my opportunities and ideas are being jeoporised, or, if this could somehow increase my involvement more. I’ll stay tuned.

  • what is staking, and proof-of-stake
    • ‘Proof-of-stake is a cryptocurrency consensus mechanism for processing transactions and creating new blocks in a blockchain. A consensus mechanism is a method for validating entries into a distributed database and keeping the database secure. In the case of cryptocurrency, the database is called a blockchain—so the consensus mechanism secures the blockchain.’
  • what is aya?
    • Aya is the autonomous private assistant acting between the 3bot and the web3. More could be said on this.
  • How do we invest in the new ventures?
    • If you mean TF Venture Creators, I think more info will be shared on this later. It should be highly accessible, as I understood.

Considering the certified farming, I think you and Nelson have a great point and it should be discussed carefully.

I won’t move your reply but the discussion and feedback are happening here considering TFGrid 3.12.

You can see we’re making a list of feedback+concerns to be discussed next week.

Thanks Mik.

So if I want to stake TFT, what are the steps to take and what does it achieve?

I thought the 3bot was (going to be) the assistant. Good thing it’s not confusing :crazy_face:

The staking process should be developed and detailed as we develop 3.12 I guess.

There will be delegated staking to add TFT stakes to a validator and/or farm staking.

Staking will secure the blockchain and its transactions.

9 August 2023 Community Call Notes

Table of Contents

Certified Nodes, Vendors and Farms

  • certified nodes

    • even if we remove the certified nodes reward bonus
      • it still means the nodes that are certified are of good quality
    • who would approve the certified nodes/sellers?
  • the “bonus” rewards need to be set by farmers

    • some farmers want plug n play
    • what can we do for these?
      • fixed farming policy seems the solution
  • benefits of certified nodes

    • more stable network
    • pay more to get more rewards
    • if we take 25% away
      • what do we have like incentives?
  • two advantages

    • reputation/quality of certified nodes
    • more rewards (+25%)
  • should we have more TFT for more quality

    • at offer (proof of capacity)
    • or at demand? (proof of utilization)
  • As the community wants to keep certified vendors, the question would be:

    • how do we make dencentralized process of adding certified vendors to the DAO?
    • how can we transfer the certified program from tf foundation to the DAO
    • can we get the certified boot loader?
  • current minting: more rewards for offer phase

  • new minting proposition: more rewards for demand phase (utilization)

  • offer phase: proof of capacity

    • nodes available on the grid
  • demand phase: proof of utilization

    • nodes being utilized by users

Grid Prices

  • 3.12
    • base price for capacity
      • should be decided by DAO
    • farmers can put additional price

Locking TFT Farming Rewards and Collateral

  • collateral

    • buy tft as collateral when farming
    • if you replace a node with another newer one, would you need more collateral?
    • say you need to stake X qty of tft to start farming Y resources
      • this seems to fix the issue
  • Collateralized Services: In this model, staked tokens can act as collateral. Users can launch services on the grid up to the value of their staked tokens. If the service costs exceed their staked amount, they would need to either stake more tokens or pay the difference.

  • locked tft

    • can it be used for utilization?
    • can it be used for farming collateral?
    • can you stake your locked tokens?
    • for how long?
    • Would the lock-up period for staked farming rewards be different from regular staking?
  • uptime requirement

    • ambiguity with the term daily minting
      • daily minting registration: mint once a month for each node the day it came online
    • not daily minting as we send TFT every day to farmers
    • it’s that nodes booting up for the first time start their minting period at this point
  • uptime

    • have tiers of service
      • e.g.: 99.99-99.95%, 99.95-99%, 99-95% , etc.
      • have different rewards based on these tiers
    • have regional internets for places where it’s hard to get high uptime


  • staking

    • 3.12 proposal
      • farmers can stake on their farm
      • other people can stake on farms
        • allow stakers to earn part of revenue
    • validator staking
      • utility: secure the blockchain
    • farmer staking
      • utility: governance and part of revenue stream coming from their node
      • utility: collateral/staking to contribute to the node
  • can we make compound staking?

    • have to see with substrate
  • staking rewards

    • percentage of rewards coming to the grid
      • actually very low
  • Unstaking Conditions: If a farmer decides to unstake their rewards, what would be the conditions? Would there be any waiting period or penalties

Referral Program and Utilization Incentives

  • referral program

    • this should be a high priority
  • Incentive for Higher Utilization: Offer enhanced staking rewards or bonuses for users who actively launch solutions and maintain high grid utilization rates.


Sharing the recording here for ease:

1 Like

Ongoing discussion and community call recap here