Questions after community call 24 oct 2022

Hi all, feel free to add any questions regarding this call below. My own are:

  1. Benchmarking the 3nodes. How much guarantee do we have as farmers that our current (older) nodes are not suddenly receiving less TFT, instead of higher/newer benchmarks more?
  2. As Vendors; we need a way to benchmark our 3nodes before selling them, so we know what to promise our buyers. How do we benchmark them? Will there be a calculator-like place ‘before’ this feature is released?
  3. If TF is ‘selling’ their idea, what exactly is their Product/Market combination(s)? How do you sell this to the public without having them focus on TFT alone?
  4. Where can I get the source file of the presentation today? I’d like to use especially some of the images on our own presentations.
  5. During the call; the image was shown of the Internet of internets, which exists of many Regional Internets, which exist of Community or Neighbourhood cloud. Especially this last one, how is this generated on the grid? What entity is created that distinguishes them between other Community or Neighbourhood clouds ? What are the benefits for a local community?
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Thank you @RobertL. This is a good start of enhancing and expanding community activities. I hope others will add to it what questions were triggered in the call but not asked. I’ll keep an eye on this and collect all open items.

  1. Benchmarking the 3nodes. How much guarantee do we have as farmers that our current (older) nodes are not suddenly receiving less TFT, instead of higher/newer benchmarks more?

The benchmarking is meant for older, refurbished equipment. New / modern equipment will always receive full token earnings, or maybe a booster to promote performant equipment. The tooling is being built in the 3.8/x sprint to start benchmarking. I am not aware of the exact bracket of performance levels that are considered to be normal and which are considered to be under par. I can imagine that we come up woith some sort of Bell curve that indexes all the equipment of the grid and we recognize the bottom 30%, middle 30-70% and then the top 30% of performermance.

Please note, this is not discussed and is meant as an example to categorize the total grid capacity

  1. As Vendors; we need a way to benchmark our 3nodes before selling them, so we know what to promise our buyers. How do we benchmark them? Will there be a calculator-like place ‘before’ this feature is released?

This benchmarking tool can be made available as a standalone tool to benchmark hardware running a standard Linux OS. I’ll check whether this is planned.

  1. If TF is ‘selling’ their idea, what exactly is its Product/Market combination(s)? How do you sell this to the public without having them focus on TFT alone?

Very important question. First: TF is not selling this/their idea. We are a group that wants to bring this decentralized internet to the world to create sovereignty for communities and nations that want it. We are not selling this idea, we are gifting it to the world. In order to do this we need like-minded people and believers that see opportunities in this idea in the form of investing in the tech company, starting farms to create TFTs, and starting regional internets to enable communities and nations to have freedom. So the focus is on creating this movement that frees people from digital monopolies.

  1. Where can I get the source file of the presentation today? I’d like to use especially some of the images on our own presentations.

Presentation pdf can be found here (link might change, as this is not the official place to share documents)

  1. During the call; the image was shown of the Internet of Internets, which exists of many Regional Internets, exists of Community or Neighbourhood cloud. Especially this last one, how is this generated on the grid? What entity is created that distinguishes them from other Community or Neighbourhood clouds? What are the benefits for a local community?

Community cloud is a term we use for people that collectively decide to start farming. The first large-scale example if this is paradise hills, a real estate company in the UAE that sold 170 villas with “built-in farming” and provides a return after 5 years. But this is not the only way this can be done, it can be done in many other ways as well, Enterprises with a large number of offices, Universities, etc. Also - on the slide this also represents single node farmers, they also create in the end regional internet capacity.

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I am not an idealist. TF and myself would disagree on probably any political conversation. However, judging from some crypto bros and funding people that have approached me this year I see how you would want to avoid taking money from them. They’re sharks.

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@weynandkuijpers. Thanks sofar!

  1. Let me give an example, 5 of my r620’s give approx 2050 TFT monthly. Eventhough they’re not the latest generation I cannot imagine we would be d… enough to benchmark them and suddenly decide they’re worth only 1500 TFT… I don’t think I’ll have to expain what will happen in the community. I trust TF is wise with this.
  2. I’m sure you understood why I put ‘selling’ in quotation marks. I did not mean it literally, I meant; how do you bring across the story for people to become enthusiastic enough to participate. Sell the ‘TF dream’ if you will.
    In your response you mention:
  • Like minded people; if they are not like minded yet, how do you convince them?
  • Investing in a tech company; what does the prospectus look like? How do you convince investors?
  1. Thanks for the link, I sent in the request.
  2. I don’t mean this in a unpleasant way, but this means a community cloud means nothing in particluar?! I mean, it is not distuinghuished in any way. The community, paradise hill, university…all they need is minimum one node, correct?
    Due to a real estate project in another country in Africa I’m interested to know a little more about the paradise hills project and in particular what you mean with a ‘return after 5 years’. But this request can be handled separate :slight_smile:

When chatting with Nelson I mentioned the following, maybe it gives an even better idea how people outside of this project think:

I’m looking for a logical presentation. Of course it starts with what the current internet is like, but then baby steps and fairly superficial on what this new internet is, and how it’s better. I get basic questions on how they get onto this new internet? Are current websites still reachable? Can i use my current glasfibre? And if yes, doesn’t this mean we’re still on the same internet? Etc. I would think that TF has given such presentations as well and keep it basic, but interesting enough. These folks want to know; where do i put my new website? Which hosting provider? Where is this new social media? Is this away from Big Tech? If so, since I’m still using the same cable, isn’t Big Tech already involved?
And the question i really haven’t a good answer to; you say in the near future these nodes are connecting to this new internet also using 4/5G, satellite, WiFi etc. But aren’t all these radio waves bad for our health…

Now, I can answer some of these questions, but I’m sure TF had to answer these as well in early stages of any of their projects. How did they answer these and what presentation they used to make this clear?
Thanks! :pray:

Are current websites still reachable?
Yes, it is interoperable with the existing internet.

Can i use my current glasfibre?
TF is not proposed its own lines, this is the responsibility of the ISP.

And if yes, doesn’t this mean we’re still on the same internet? Etc.
This is a little above me. Some insight here. An explanation of Threefold today for the Average User

If so, since I’m still using the same cable, isn’t Big Tech already involved?
Kinda. There are a lot of medium sized ISP’s out there too. But most lines are owned by big companies.No way around that without $10 billion.

Thanks Nelson. I think this last point is why TF promised in time they’ll use 4/5G, WiFi, satellite etc. to have this 'resilient and unbreakable ’ connection. Right? I’m a bit fuzzy on that status :slight_smile:

That was mentioned in the original white paper. Hard to say if that’s still part of the plan.

I just put out a new thread on exactly this topic, there are also allot of very adhd deep dive threads I’ve opened on the sub topics mentioned here

I cover a pretty deep, and technical, dive into what would be required to support a large network of these isp’s on the grid, in the Network Farming Initiative GEP

This thread is some of my early work when I was testing my peeing strategy’s using a yggdrasil public node.

I’m intending to deploy one of these locally and I really feel like I’m getting pretty close to a proof of concept.

We’re open to any kind of connectivity. If the Linux kernel supports the device as a network device we’re good to go… But we can only do so much at the same time, we need more support (investment) to go faster. That is truly the only limiting factor. :slight_smile:

There is actually a very simple solution to this.

If you don’t have the resources to pursue all your ambitions, you could lower your ambitions.

The whole confusion @FLnelson talks about above, stems from the fact that TF always has been profiling itself as delivering ‘The New Internet’.

The average Joe sees Internet as infrastructure. If the Wifi router stops, people say ‘there is no Internet’.

If you promise a new Internet, then people expect new infrastructure, a new network. TF however doesn’t deliver that, and I would argue it should not have the ambition to do so.

If you connect something to the Internet via existing ISP’s, then what you have connected just becomes part of the Internet. It’s not a ‘new’ Internet.

I’m happy to see that on the website TF changed its pitch and now uses the slogan ‘Rebirth’ of the Internet. So, the current Internet but better.

More correct however would be to say that TF is just pushing it’s own interpretation /implementation/piece of the puzzle of Web3, yet this term is nowhere to be found on the home-page.

Of course ‘Web3’ is a term the average Joe doesn’t know about, but this is the current term used in this space and makes clear to at least the Web3 community what you are trying to do.

Web3 is much more clear then Internet 2.0 or ‘The New Internet’ which are terms coined by TF but when I Google for it I get this: [https://internet2-0.com/] or references to Web3.

Of course the Web3 implementation of TF is different from what peers do, and ZoS and privately owned nodes are a part of that implementation. This is how TF discerns itself from the rest, so that needs to be explained.

So, let’s forget about Internet 2.0 and the new Internet, and focus on explaining/selling our implementation of the Web3 paradigm.

Agree with the fact that if the Wifi router stops, people say “there is no internet”. Because the Wifi router is the gateway / connection / pathway from you home / office to the “Internet”. Semantics. They do say the internet is out / gone if that router is down, referring to the rest of the infrastructure being "everything beyond your Wifi router, including (fat) connections and servers processing and serving content.

Taking this view we are building a new internet, in counties and tribes that have “bad pipes” that are the gateway to the rest of the Internet, which does not reside locally within their geography. We are working on projects where nodes and edge datacenters provides local process and storage capabilities and extend the network working available to remote areas and present local sovereign internet (connectivity and servers). So I think Internet is the right term IMHO.

We can talk about this for ages, I say tomàto, you say tòmato… Let’s use our energy to push this project to the corners of the world.

This is not a tomàto, you say tòmato discussion.

This was about how to clearly communicate the Threefold proposition to the World (and ourselves).

Which is of prime importance in order to push the project ‘to the corners of the World’.

Building Internet infrastructure in remote areas is just that, building Internet infrastructure. Not a New Internet, but an alternative local loop with local DC’s.

Again, the WEB3 paradigm forms (mostly) the meat of this project, however even the home-page doesn’t speak about that.